Through the Looking Glass

Ok, Today I have nothing “cute” to say… I am going print for you an actual set of posts from CraigsList in Tucson. (There is strong language in these posts; cover your eyes if you need to.)This will consist of the give and take that followed an unusually (to me anyway) heinous diatribe on our kids in Iraq. And yes, they are kids; But they are also a hundred times more man than I’ll ever be. I want you to take a close read on these numbers: Starting pay, rank E-1 (private) is $1301.00/mos. or 302 bucks a week!!! $15,600.00 annual!!! Did you know that? (source Army.mil) official site for the U.S. Army.

So, what we have is 302 bucks/60hrs. It’s actually 24 hrs a day; but for the sake of conjecture 60 hours weekly is 5 bucks an hour. So…Keep up with me here, A total STRANGER, who is paid 5 bucks an hour is willing to DIE for ME!!! You do not have to agree or disagree on the Iraq engagement. But, if you have any semblance of humanity, you have got to admire the hell out of our VOLUNTEER armed forces.

That said, let’s examine these posts from CraigsList, Tucson. (The first post here is a rebuttal to an ANONYMOUS attack on this gentlemans, Choice for the Presidency…)

Ive learned a lot today… (Marana)

I’ve learned that I’m unAmerican
I’ve learned that I’m unpatriotic
and I’ve learned that I’m a rednecked hillbilly because of where I live…

I just cant figure out if I’m unAmerican/unpatriotic because:

I support Barak Obama?
I’m a liberal?
Or because I’m still a little bitter about losing my foot and fingers in Iraq,
so idiots from both sides of this room have the chance to Rant and Rave?

I dont think I’ll ever be able to figure that one out.

Reply:

RE: learned alot today (marana) - (tucson)

Quit whining about losing body parts in Iraq. Who forced you to join the military ???? That’s right nobody made you join it was your choice. That is what happens in war you dumb ass. I’m sure the rest of us will be paying your medical bills for the rest of your life, while we can’t afford it for ourselves. So stop looking for sympathy and acting like we owe you something!!

Now comes the firestorm. (Admittedly, I stoked the fire. But it needed doing.)

MY Reply:

I THINK WE HAVE CROSSED THE LINE HERE

Ok guys, I believe we’ve (whomever this poster is) has gone waaayyy too far.

TO ALL R & R readers - PLEASE READ THE BELOW COMMENTS FROM THIS POSTER.

RE: learned alot today (marana) - (tucson)

LET’S A UNITED FRONT ON THIS ONE GUYS AND GALS. IF WE DON’T DENOUNCE THIS AS A WHOLE; IT MAKES US AS A GROUP LOOK LIKE VERY EVIL PEOPLE. This is not an “opinion”, but a full-scale invitation for someone new to the posts to say: “WTF theses people are assholes!!!” Read his post, then post your indignation!

…Just a bit too far.

I have nothing “cute” to say on this one.

The Argus

Now, thank god, comes the firestorm…

1) Someone says a line has been crossed, but my feeling is that it’s an uncensored forum, for better or worse. Much of it is offensive, but some interesting stuff too. I’ve looked at some other forums, and they’re even more in the gutter than this one. I agree with Cactus Jim about keeping the bar raised, or at least those among us with a brain at least attempting that.

2) I’m sorry I thought this was america where the first amendment still meant something, denounce what you will. I don’t recall calling anyone an asshole? I have 4 nephews in Iraq and Afghanistan as we speak. And a niece that lost her fiancé to an I.E.D. But I have ABSOLUTELY no sympathy or respect for anyone that join’s the military and then whines and cries about going to war, or expects me to feel bad that they lost an appendage when GOOD men and women are dying everyday. So go screw yourself!!!

3) Comments about injured service men. Unacceptable…

I’m stand strongly against censorship and can’t be a censor of this post anyway, but whoever attacked the wounded vet needs to make an apology. I refuse to flag posts, but when it comes to garbage like that, someone needs to. It makes everyone, even the worst of us, look bad. Not just bad, almost evil. I’m opposed to the war. I can’t stand the government, but this guy, most of the men and women in the military are kids. The military sold them a bill of goods and promises and they signed on. Someone might have mentioned to them that they might die or lose a limb or need 12 dental surgeries to repair a shattered jaw, but to someone in their 20’s it’s just so many words. They knew the risks in the form of statistics, but not in terms of pain on a scale of 1 to 10. Sure, fighting a war, whether it’s a “good” war or something flawed like Vietnam or Iraq, is obviously risky, but if we have the least vestige of humanity then we do not jeer or cheer when someone is hurt.

These kids don’t know enough to realize that war is a rich white man’s game with themselves as the pawns. They’re fighting for us, and no, I don’t want any one of them to die for the likes of me, but they believe in it and to that extent I have to support them individually, not the government’s war machine and the big money behind it. This kid is suffering now because he believes he’s protecting my right to run at the mouth on this forum,along with what he sees are the rights of every American. To the extent he has proven that he believes in something enough to die for it, he stands head and shoulders above most of us who can’t really answer that question. The willingness to die for something. What I respect is the strength of his belief, not the belief itself, and there is no action I can take other than to support it.

There’s damn little we can do other than vote for candidates who will get us out of Iraq and get these kids home safely.

Wish I had something more profound to say about it all. But I hope everyone will take a stand against these kinds of obscene attacks against individual military personal. We’re better than that.

4) Did you read the second post ??? It’s titled YOU crossed the line. I stand by my opinion and if that offends you that is too bad. And it’s people like you that think pulling out of the war is a good thing that are going to really mess up this country. Do you not see pulling out of Afghanistan in the 80’s is what put us in this situation in the first place??? Why should I be flagged, because I have an opinion that you don’t ? Does that mean I should go through and flag every post that show’s support for Obama because I don’t agree?? I stand by my beliefs regardless of public opinion, I’m a TRUE AMERICAN !!!! I will not be bullied buy anyone!!! I’ll accept your apology for trying to take away my 1st amendment right.

5)
There’s a lot of debate about this, but as someone who is fanatically anti-war, it’s a question I continue to ask myself. During Vietnam much of the nation was against the war AND the troops. The guys came home and almost had to face another conflict on American soil. But things have changed since those dark days. Now most people realize that the soldier isn’t responsible for the war or in a position to influence the outcome of the war based on any disagreement he may have over it. He or she is just doing a very dirty and dangerous job. They aren’t foreign policy experts. So we support their efforts on our behalf whether or not we feel those efforts are warranted. Below is a quote from a female soldier in Iraq who was asked the question.

She spent a year in Iraq as a Staff Sergeant in a tank unit: “Supporting the troops is as American as apple pie, or as baseball. I think the best supporter is the one that questions why the troops are sacrificing their lives, their buddies, and their families, to fight. The best supporter is the one that understands the troops, and fights for their rights both on the ground and on their return.”

If you hear an airplane tonight, and you live near an air base; what say we all look up, smile, and wave.

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